Ice & Fire Picks + Listener League, Little Giants

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Players to target or avoid in fantasy football drafts! On today’s fantasy football podcast, Andy, Mike, and Jason each pick an Ice & Fire player for 2023. Plus, the big listener league entry announcement and the latest NFL News! Manage your redraft, keeper, and dynasty fantasy football teams with the #1 fantasy football podcast. — Fantasy Football Podcast for August 2nd, 2023.

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Cooper Kupp‘s injury and impact on fantasy 08:14

  • Cooper Kupp left practice with a hamstring injury 08:15
  • The team will be cautious and it could take weeks for his recovery 08:30
  • The injury risk for Cooper Kupp is rising in the UDK rankings 09:22

“Our risk ratings in the UDK are going to rise on Cooper Kupp.”

Risk of drafting injured players in fantasy 09:38

  • It’s recommended not to buy into the ADP dip of currently injured players during draft season 09:42
  • If Cooper Kupp is fully healthy during the draft, there won’t be an ADP dip 09:48

“I have a rule that I’ve adopted over the last several years, which is when you’re in draft season, don’t, don’t buy the ADP dip of currently injured players.”

Alvin Kamara meeting with Roger Goodell 09:58

  • Alvin Kamara is meeting with Roger Goodell to discuss the Las Vegas incident and potential suspension 09:58

Alvin Kamara is going to meet with Roger Goodell today to discuss the Las Vegas incident.”

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Calvin Ridley‘s toe injury 10:15

  • Calvin Ridley‘s toe injury was initially a concern, but it turned out to be related to the cleats he was wearing 10:23
  • After switching cleats, he is expected to be fine 10:26

“Dealing with the toe injury that was reported, a lot of sad faces. And then this morning we found out it’s related to the cleats he was wearing and he switched cleats today and he’s expected to be fine.”

Alexander Mattison‘s practice injury 10:50

  • Alexander Madison limped off the practice field, but it didn’t seem serious 10:50
  • Rookie Dwayne McBride got first-team reps in Madison’s absence 11:15

“Vikings running back Alexander Madison limped off the practice field… Madison camp injury didn’t seem serious, but we’ll have to pay attention.”

Discussion about rookie tight ends 12:48

  • There is excitement and speculation about rookie tight ends 12:49
  • It’s difficult for rookie tight ends to be consistent and earn the trust of quarterbacks 14:02

“This year will be the real testing of the rookie tight end… It’s very difficult to be consistent in any way, shape, and form… It’d be fun though if it happened.”

George Kittle‘s Performance and Touchdowns 16:05

  • George Kittle had an anomaly year in terms of touchdowns in 2022, with 11 touchdowns compared to his previous seasons with much fewer touchdowns.
  • Touchdowns are not a reliable indicator of future performance, as they are a volatile and unpredictable statistic.

“We know we say this all the time and it’s just proven year after year after year at every position. Touchdowns are not a sticky stat.”

George Kittle‘s Target Share and Performance 17:20

  • George Kittle‘s targets are going to be spread out among other players in the San Francisco 49ers offense.
  • In the games where Kittle played with all the key offensive players, his target share was only 11.5%.
  • Kittle’s bad games will be very bad, as he is also known for his excellent blocking skills.

“He’s talking about a fourth read in an offense where he is dominant, but he’s not going to be able to get it done.”

George Kittle‘s Injuries and Consistency 18:22

  • George Kittle has not played a complete season since 2018 and has dealt with injuries.
  • Without the guarantee of 11 touchdowns, his yardage numbers are not impressive enough for fantasy football.
  • Over the last decade, only one top five tight end was fourth on his team in targets, highlighting the importance of targets for consistent fantasy production.

“60 for 765 is not doing it for you if you don’t have 11 touchdowns.”

Drafting George Kittle at Current Price Point 19:37

  • Currently, selecting George Kittle in the draft means giving up on higher-value players in other positions.
  • Drafting him in the fifth round means passing on quarterbacks like Justin Herbert or Justin Fields, as well as other skill position players.
  • The inconsistency that comes with Kittle’s performance is not worth sacrificing stronger players in other positions.

“The inconsistency you’re going to receive will not be worth it just because you’re like, I want to fill my tight end position and feel good about it. Don’t do it.”

Darren Waller‘s Potential 20:47

  • Darren Waller‘s past two full seasons have been outstanding, finishing as the top three tight end in both years.
  • The New York Giants‘ wide receiver room lacks a clear leader, giving Waller an opportunity to be the main target for Daniel Jones.
  • Historically, offenses without a clear wide receiver one tend to boost tight end target shares.

“This guy made it easier last year because he wasn’t participating a lot. I want to talk about the brand new tight end for the New York football Giants, the offseason surprise edition, the tallest man in the receiver room. We’re talking about Darren Waller. We’re talking about a player that’s made a huge contribution in the past, getting older, changing teams.”

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Darren Waller‘s Potential in the New York Giants Offense 23:42

  • Darren Waller is flashing in camp and is considered a matchup nightmare.
  • Despite a new team and quarterback, the Giants have shown they can put their players in a position to succeed.
  • Waller’s potential to receive eight or nine targets per game in this offense is exciting.
  • The Giants’ limited personnel last year did not hinder their ability to compete.
  • Waller’s potential draft price is considered a steal due to his potential role in the Giants’ offense.

“I’m very excited about his potential… I’m all aboard here with the Wallerists. It’s going to be great to have him back.”

Alvin Kamara‘s declining efficiency and uncertainty 31:26

  • Alvin Camara, a 28-year-old running back, has seen a decline in his efficiency.
  • The running back relies heavily on touchdowns for his fantasy value.
  • With competition from younger players and Camara’s declining efficiency, he may not be a worthwhile draft pick.

“Seems like a really bad bet to carry a 28 year old running back whose efficiency has plummeted.”

Uncertainty surrounding Alvin Kamara‘s role and suspension 32:19

  • Alvin Camara’s value relies on his involvement in the receiving game.
  • However, the uncertainty of his role and potential suspension raises concerns.
  • If his production is limited to just 50 catches and he faces suspension, it may not be worth keeping him on the roster.

“If he catches 50 passes, 57 last year, if he catches 50 passes, but he’s a part of this offense with the touchdowns not guaranteed, what’s he truly like?”

Evaluating the draft cost and potential of Tee Higgins 34:19

  • T Higgins is being drafted as the wide receiver 12 in the third round.
  • He has never finished as a top 12 receiver in his career.
  • Drafting Higgins at his current ADP requires him to significantly outperform his previous seasons.

“You’re expecting a player who was 40 second in the league in targets per route run to finish as a top 12 receiver on the Cincinnati Bengals.”

Considering other receiver options with greater upside 35:59

  • T Higgins’ high draft cost makes it difficult for him to live up to expectations.
  • There are other wide receivers available in later rounds with higher upside.
  • DK Metcalf, Crystal Lave, and Devonte Smith are examples of players who may offer more value.

“I’d much rather have [Devonte Smith] and pick him at this spot than I would T Higgins.”


“You are now expecting a player who was 40 second in the league in targets per route run to finish as a top 12 receiver on the Cincinnati Bengals.”

Discussing Tee Higgins‘ draft cost and realistic expectations 38:25

  • T Higgins’ current ADP reflects his best-case scenario finish.
  • To justify the draft pick, he would need to have a career-best year, including 10+ touchdowns.
  • Without reaching these high expectations, his performance may be disappointing.

“If T Higgins ends up 10 plus touchdowns, then he can overcome being 42nd in targets per route run and not necessarily running as many routes as some of the top-tier wide receivers.”

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“And then you’ve broken even on your draft pick.”

Tee Higgins argument for a higher ranking 39:06

  • T Higgins played in all games last season, with the exception of the absent Buffalo game.
  • He finished as the wide receiver 17 in 13 games where he finished.
  • When Jamar Chase and T Higgins played together for 9 full games, Higgins had a 17-game pace of 136 targets, 87 receptions, 1192 yards, and 9.5 touchdowns, which would have ranked him as the wide receiver eight.

“13 games where he finished as the wide receiver 17.”

Keenan Allen as a “fire” pick 40:40

  • Keenan Allen is a consistent and reliable wide receiver.
  • Over the last six years, he ranks only behind Davante Adams in total targets, receptions, and first downs.
  • Allen had a down year in 2021 due to injury but finished as the wide receiver four from week 11 onwards.

“He is going to have a high score every single week.”

Zay Flowers: Case for an Impact Rookie 47:06

  • Zay Flowers is a rookie wide receiver for the Baltimore Ravens.
  • He was drafted in the first round and has a strong production profile.
  • Flowers went to a smaller school but dominated in college.
  • He is currently being drafted in the back of the ninth round.

Zay flowers has the strongest production profile, uh, of the first round wide receivers. He was, he was dominant.”

Baltimore Ravens Wide Receiver Situation 47:40

  • Rashod Bateman has had injury issues and is still not fully healthy.
  • Odell Beckham Jr. is 31 years old and has suffered two ACL tears.
  • Beckham’s performance has declined in recent years.
  • Lamar Jackson has had success throwing to a true WR1, like Bateman.
  • The opportunity for wide receivers in the Baltimore offense is limited due to a run-heavy scheme.

“Rashad Bateman, who knows? Like, like we had, so we’ve had some bad vibes with him this off season… he has not been the Odell Beckham fantasy force in years when he was with the Rams.”

The Baltimore Ravens Offense 49:24

  • The Baltimore Ravens offense has traditionally been run-heavy.
  • Their neutral pace rank since 2019 has been low.
  • However, with Todd Monken as the new offensive coordinator, there is potential for a more pass-heavy approach.
  • Lamar Jackson has been a productive fantasy quarterback in the past.

“Since 2019, here’s how the Ravens have ranked in neutral pace back with the, the old, we’re going to grind it out high T run, run, run, run, run, run. We don’t like that because we want a high-paced offense… Lamar Jackson is a good quarterback who can get the ball where it needs to be.”

Zay Flowers and Lamar Jackson Connection 50:28

  • Zay Flowers is a smaller wide receiver but has the ability to get open.
  • Lamar Jackson‘s mobility helps his receivers get open.
  • Jackson has shown in the past that he can produce fantasy points.
  • The training camp hype around Flowers has been positive.

Lamar Jackson is very impressed. The training camp has, the training camp hype has been really nice for Zay FlowersLamar Jackson is already saying, I’m going to call him joystick.”

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Potential Fantasy Impact of Zay Flowers 51:35

  • It might take a few weeks for rookie wide receivers to make an impact.
  • Flowers is currently being drafted in the back of the ninth round, making him a value pick.
  • There is a possibility that Flowers becomes the number one wide receiver for the Ravens.
  • With the potential for a more pass-heavy offense, Flowers could be an impact player for fantasy teams.

“But I think by the halfway point of the season, spending that, the back of the ninth round, I think you have a player who’s going to be an impact player for your fantasy football teams.”

Zay Flowers as the number one wide receiver 54:42

“I do actually have them statted as the number one wide receiver on the team.”

Kyle wearing a Keenan Allen Jersey 54:49

  • Kyle is currently wearing a Kenan L Jersey, which he wore even during the show. 54:49

“Kyle, I believe is currently wearing a Kenan L Jersey. He’s repenting. Now he didn’t put that on mid-show in order to rebuke Jason. Did you have that on the entire episode? I wore it to sleep last night. Okay. Yeah. That’s all he wears to sleep. And that’s the problem.”

Conclusion and Episode Wrap-up 55:09

  • The episode concludes and they mention that another episode will be released tomorrow, discussing the wide receiver rankings. 55:09

“We are done with today’s episode of the show. But guess what? We’re back with another one tomorrow. Getting into the wide receiver rankings. Talk to you soon. Goodbye.”


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Joseph DAngelo says:

Hi my name is Joseph,

I would love to be apart of the listeners league. I love the podcast, and fantasy football. I am a huge fan of the Washington Redskins/Commanders. Keeping it simple.


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